Hi,

We recently borrowed a friend’s Canon HD camera and some mics and had a big problem with the audio. This is, when no-one was speaking, either the mic or the camera amplified the background ambient noise A LOT. The ambient noise would go away once the subject with the mic started speaking. We couldn’t find any setting in the camera dealing with gains and the mics didn’t have anything like that either as you could only adjust the frequency. In other shootings, when no-one was speaking, instead of the background noise being amplified, there would simply be no sound (or almost no sound) which is what we’d expect and what we want.

Now we’re trying to buy a good HD camera/mics combo that would solve the above problems resulting in videos with great audio. We need to record dance lessons with 2 instructors at a time. Both instructors need to have mics (lavalier) at all times. The camera will be static about 15-20 feet away from the instructors.

I was wondering if anyone would have some recommendations for a great low price HD camera (ideally under $600) and good lavalier mic system to go along with it (also on the low-price end)?

As far as the camera, do you recommend built-in hard-drive or with a tape? I’d much rather a built-in HD if the image quality is good enough for videos to be posted on the web.
As far as the mic, do we need anything extra to be able to record the audio that comes from both mics to the camera?

Thanks for any suggestion!

Carlos

Hi Carlos,

Good questions.  For the HD camcorder there are many good options on the market now.  New ones tend to be $700 to $800 though on the low end, but you can sometimes find models being phased out or recertified models for $600 or less.  In terms of going tape vs hard drive, there used to be a point where it was harder to edit footage from most harddrive based cameras and tape was a better answer.  Now, though that problem is gone and its really just a matter of preference.  The one advantage of tape based HD cameras is it may be a little easier to archive physical tapes of old footage than finding larger and larger harddrives.  They can also read ledacy SD mini DV tapes, so any existing set of archives can still be accessed.  If archiving isn’t an issue, then I’d say go the hard drive route.

In terms of specific cameras, Canon and Sony are rightfully seen as the top two brands (with Panasonic being a close third).  We have the most experience with the Canons and love them.  They have a good HD camera lineup and they come with a microphone input, which is key.  In tape models, they currently offer the HV40, which can be found for a little over $800. The two previous models were the HV30, which is currently being phased out, and the HV20, both of which aren’t that different from the current models and you can find even better deals on them in sometimes new or recertified offerings.  In hard drive models, the HG20 or HG21 are good choices. 

As for microphones, that is a little more difficult I’m afraid.  There are some less expensive wireless lav systems on the market, but they generally don’t work that well.  To get a good one it can be upwards of $700 to $1000+.  I might suggest trying an external shotgun mic instead.  They offer drastically better sound than a built-in mic and can be had for anywhere from $75 to $150 or so.  Something like this model from Rode, or this model from Azden might both be good options.

If you still think you might want to invest in a wireless lav system, I’d suggest seeing about renting a few different varieties before you buy.  Most cities have pro video places that will rent equipment out by the day.  This would give you an opportunity to try different models, and see how much better they work in your setting than other options.  If you really want to get into some of the nitty gritty technical options for digital video audio, check out the forums at DVInfo.net, http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/all-things-audio/.

Hope this helps.  Good luck!

Hi Carlos,

Jason did an excellent job answering your question, but I’ve made a few audio recording errors and bad camera purchases in my days as a videographer and I just wanted to pass on some advice that I have learned by making mistakes.

First off, tapeless or miniDV? It used to be that most consumer-grade camcorders recorded to miniDV, but over the last 2 years, AVCHD camcorders have become more popular. The only round-about is that you have to find one that is both PC and MAC-compatible, or understand that if you’re editing on a MAC, then you need to do your research. This is a good article that compares which AVCHD camcorders are Mac-compatible and which aren’t.

BEST-RATED 2009 MAC-COMPATIBLE TAPELESS CAMCORDERS:

Under $400: Canon HG10 AVCHD High Definition Camcorder with Optical Image Stabilizer
Around $700: Canon VIXIA HG20 AVCHD 60 GB HDD Camcorder with 12x Optical Zoom
Around $1,000: Sony HDR-SR11 10.2-MP 60GB High Definition Hard Drive Handycam Camcorder with 12x Optical Image Stabilized Zoom

Once you have chosen WHAT camera to record video with, the next step is to decide HOW to record sound.

3 WAYS TO RECORD SOUND:

1. Wire the Subject: Lavalier Mic Method
If you’re going to record a dance lesson I suggest using a wireless lavelier mic only if you’re not moving that much. They pick up the sound of your clothes rustling and body movements which can also change the strength of the mic’s pickup. They also have some interference with other wireless devices like cell phones, and sometimes record sound intermittently. Here is an example of one of our author’s using a wireless lavelier HEADSET: http://www.mindbites.com/lesson/1247-full-ballet-class-drill It sounds great when it works, but if you notice sometimes his voice cuts off when he moves.

1. Boom Pole & Grip Method
Or you could do the professional approach: On movie sets they use shotgun mics connected to boom poles that someone holds 2 feet above/below the speaker. You would have to craft or purchase a boom pole and attach a shotgun mic to the end of it. You would also need a friend to help hold the boom pole; while a camera could just sit on a tripod, a boom pole would have to follow the speaker and remain the same distance away to get consistent sound.

3. Dub Audio Over Video Method
If you don’t have a friend or someone to help hold the boom pole and you know a wireless mic will not work, you could dub the audio over the dancing lesson like in this ballet video: http://www.mindbites.com/lesson/1254-the-ballet-barre-the-inevitable-ballet-basics Doing it this way becomes an additional step in the editing process, but you have more control over your audio and you don’t have to memorize it beforehand; you could just read a script and record.

Once you have chosen the method for which you want to record, you can choose a mic to purchase.

BEST 2009 CONSUMER-PRICED MICS:

1. Lavelier Mics

Wireless under $200: AZDEN WMS-PRO Lavaliere System with Hand-Held Microphone
Wired under $50: Olympus ME-15 Microphone

2. Shotgun Mics

Mounts on camera around $100: Rode VideoMic Directional Shotgun Mic w/Mount
Mounts on boom pole around $50: Audio Technica ATR-55 Condenser Shotgun Microphone

My ideal setup would be to have a Sony HDR-SR11 and an ATR-55 Condenser Shotgun Mic attached to a boom pole, but this limits those who want to shoot without additional assistance via a grip.

Hope this information was helpful! And continue to fill this forum with other reccomendations or reviews that you’ve found helpful to your search or that would be useful to others.

I totally agree. Have my Sony HDR-SR11 and so far i don’t have any complaints nor regrets for buying it..

Regards,
sandra

This is great thread. I agree with the best 2009 camcorders. I have one the Canon VIXIA HG20 AVCHD 60 GB HDD Camcorder with 12x Optical Zoom its about $700. And it is great. Never encounter a problem with it.

regards,
erica